[AV] 再試 RealTraps 用作牆角 Bass Trap 低頻陷阱

[Raymond Wan]

Me not expert but I think the extra Real Traps did not show improvement in Raymond hing's house (although still can affect imaging on real life listening) may due to ;

1)Real traps placed on opening area(door)
--Try on front/rear right corners(enclosed area) maybe(may not) better
--I feel with existing Raymond DAADs placements, only hang all extra Real Traps on ceilings(scatter around with 45degree to corners) then able to see better improvement.
--Consumer bass traps did not design to trap low low frequency + most rooms are not big enough

2)DAADs already done a nice job
--Bring all DAADs out of the room and replace by Real Traps then can compare the both .

Through my little experience, only scatter bass traps all around the corners(including ceiling) then will see good results .

Raymond hing may also want to just open 1 of the doors slightly(to leak out some bass) and measure(just try for fun ).

I am just passing by , please do not shoot me , I beat myself first

(Note: I did not use any of Raymond hing's bass traps product and those EQ software before :sorry)

Hi Jason

Long time no see ! How's your AV life in Singapore ?



I am not just testing at the door/wall corner. But also at wall/wall corners at the front left and right.

If you have time to review all my tests on RealTraps, I did nearly all the possible combinations of using RealTraps and DAAD individually and together on both corners and walls.

試用 RealTraps 產品 --> viewtopic.php?f=7&t=155185

RealTraps 吸音板和 DAAD 調音柱測試 --> viewtopic.php?f=7&t=155928

再試 RealTraps 用作牆角 Bass Trap 低頻陷阱 --> viewtopic.php?f=7&t=157529

In all case, the findings are
(1) DAAD is slightly better than RealTraps in my home
(2) Adding additional RealTraps will not achieve improvements
(3) Use RealTraps at first reflection point at the side walls is better than present DAAD2
(4) Use RealTraps placed along the walls at scattered locations will improve the RT60 slightly



The aim of trying the RealTraps is to find possible improvement on dealing better control on the bass frequency to flatten a little bit as well as handle the existing room mode of 26Hz.

However, I cannot achieve the goal from the various tests.



Anyway, I finally find a useful adoption of RealTraps is to use in the first reflection points.

Hence, I end up with the purchase of 4 units of RealTraps BareTraps.



Hope the above can give you full picture of my past tests and some basic findings leading to the conclusion and adoption of RealTraps and DAADs for my own home environment based on the present acoustic conditions.

I am fine , thanks bro

Already slow down on AV since baby born . Now experiencing what bro Luckybeanbean been thru before.

I have read some of your testings and experiments but I feel your DAADs already done a good job on what it should so adding this Real traps on the same locations may not improve anything. (except more on changing imaging and adding pressure)

Trying on a open corners(got doors) is not a good idea since bass will sure leak out and hard to trap . It is better still to just change/open the door slightly(just like SvS sub tuning port) and feel the difference.

What I see from your pics is your ceiling corners quite bare so that should be the locations to put and test if you really want to have significant differences from current . But ofcoz need to go thru lot of hazzale just to hang up the Real Traps...

Based on your findings;
1)DAAD can be better in your case since materials used, size and placement method,amount of space occupied in your room are different. All these can result in different imaging and etc. Ofcoz you did a good job by comparing in actual situations and not just reading . Really admire

2)Like I mentioned , place the Real Traps at the ceilings think should improve more.

3)Since Real traps is bigger in size , the absorptions of first reflections area also bigger so no doubt it it yield better results

4)Again because you covered bigger area by placing the Real Traps along the walls at scattered locations so it sure improve something.

26hz I guess the only way to to change your door/open your door . No consumer traps can do that. It may only seems improving because it improve the ringing on higher frequencies that will also affect readings on lower frequencies. However , actual fact is it is not doing anything on 26hz .

If you still can remember my room , you can see I covered almost every inches of my room with somethings(although looks ugly ). This is because I strongly believe sound is 360degree(with reflections and etc) from speakers so every small inches counts . It will be worst if room is small(like me) so better covered every areas with somethings.

DAAD2 is good but we cannot ignore the fact that it is small and the area covered is smaller for first reflections.

Again,wrong infos don't beat me I apologize first

Jason hing

I believe you have overcome all the challenge of AV issues as you can successfully tune in great conditions in your AV room with 7 subwoofers. You are moving to the next more time consuming task on bringing up your son and enjoy another era of joyfulness.



I still learn and struggle how to do it right with my present 4 subwoofers : M&K MPS-5410 x 2 and MPS-5310 x 2.



In fact, the first attempt to consider the RealTraps product is the Tri-corners which coincide with your belief on the ceiling corners. However, I have not taken the fixing device from Eddie so I just place them on the ground corners.

I have returned all the MondoTraps and MiniTraps to Eddie but retain 2 Tri-corners with me. I will get the fixing device from Eddie and test the final go for the RealTraps.



Even with the "open door" option can solve the 26Hz room mode, I will not use it as it will affect my boss in the study room or bed room.



Having with the room mode of 26Hz is not so bad at all since the occurrence of this frequency is not high. Even it is occasionally appearing in the movie, the extra dB will act as a body massage which is quite good as well.

But just for perfection, I will try whatever way that I can able to do for possible enhancement only.



This is the main reason why I get 4 units of RealTraps BareTraps to be placed on the first reflection point at the 2 side walls as well as at the ceiling for possible improvement on sound focus.



Hopefully, in the near future, I will see you again in Singapore visiting you and the AV friends that I met during my last visit. Please send all my regards to them. If you are planning to come to HK, please give me some advance advice so that I can spare the time and stay in HK rather than travelling aboard for business.

Good luck, good health and all the best to you and your family.

[Raymond Wan]

Thanks Raymond for his wonderful and detail test!

Eddie hing, the pleasure is mine on sharing and reporting my findings with you and all other brothers.

I just want to alert others that those published data for a product can only be used as a general guide. But for ultimate results, we may need to test or verify with our own setup.

As you can see, when I added more RealTraps with my DAADs, the results became worst.



Therefore, it is not necessary that to add more device will yield better results which I believe most of us will think in this direction.



If you can able to find the fixing device for the Tri-corners, please let me know so that I can drive and pick up at your office.

[jjj]

Hence, I
Jason hing

I believe you have overcome all the challenge of AV issues as you can successfully tune in great conditions in your AV room with 7 subwoofers. You are moving to the next more time consuming task on bringing up your son and enjoy another era of joyfulness.



I still learn and struggle how to do it right with my present 4 subwoofers : M&K MPS-5410 x 2 and MPS-5310 x 2.



In fact, the first attempt to consider the RealTraps product is the Tri-corners which coincide with your belief on the ceiling corners. However, I have not taken the fixing device from Eddie so I just place them on the ground corners.

I have returned all the MondoTraps and MiniTraps to Eddie but retain 2 Tri-corners with me. I will get the fixing device from Eddie and test the final go for the RealTraps.



Even with the "open door" option can solve the 26Hz room mode, I will not use it as it will affect my boss in the study room or bed room.



Having with the room mode of 26Hz is not so bad at all since the occurrence of this frequency is not high. Even it is occasionally appearing in the movie, the extra dB will act as a body massage which is quite good as well.

But just for perfection, I will try whatever way that I can able to do for possible enhancement only.



This is the main reason why I get 4 units of RealTraps BareTraps to be placed on the first reflection point at the 2 side walls as well as at the ceiling for possible improvement on sound focus.



Hopefully, in the near future, I will see you again in Singapore visiting you and the AV friends that I met during my last visit. Please send all my regards to them. If you are planning to come to HK, please give me some advance advice so that I can spare the time and stay in HK rather than travelling aboard for business.

Good luck, good health and all the best to you and your family.

Thanks for your compliment,bro

Actually I tune my subs according to what I think it is right and I want only and try not depending on the graph so much . I once try to make the response graph nicely but the more I tried, the more I don't like the bass feel . This happens to my friends using standalone Auddysee EQ and BFD that time too. But like you said , I now bringing up my son and enjoy another era of joyfulness

Multiple subs is not a easy task to accomplish but once done and you get what you wanted , you happy . Enjoy tweaking your subs but one advice , do not be greedy above 50hz . You will be overpower and mess up the lower frequency feel . I would recommend using max 2 subs for above 50hz unless you stack them together

When you have fix up the 4 ceiling corners , let us know your comments and findings.

Understand the open door issue . I have been struggling and gave up the idea too eventhough it do improve a lot on deep frequencies in my room

To be frank , I never EQ below 30hz since it is the feel that a lot of subs can't handle. To me , the more db the merrier so I just leave to what it combined and produced. I only concentrate on >36hz and ensure it gives me a smooth feel throughout ,including the deep.

Hope to see you in Singapore again as there are slight changes in my setup during your previous visit. Need your comments .

Will definately contact you and some bros in HK if I have the chance to go over.

Cheers bro . All the best to you and family too

[Raymond Wan]

Hence, I
Jason hing

I believe you have overcome all the challenge of AV issues as you can successfully tune in great conditions in your AV room with 7 subwoofers. You are moving to the next more time consuming task on bringing up your son and enjoy another era of joyfulness.



I still learn and struggle how to do it right with my present 4 subwoofers : M&K MPS-5410 x 2 and MPS-5310 x 2.



In fact, the first attempt to consider the RealTraps product is the Tri-corners which coincide with your belief on the ceiling corners. However, I have not taken the fixing device from Eddie so I just place them on the ground corners.

I have returned all the MondoTraps and MiniTraps to Eddie but retain 2 Tri-corners with me. I will get the fixing device from Eddie and test the final go for the RealTraps.



Even with the "open door" option can solve the 26Hz room mode, I will not use it as it will affect my boss in the study room or bed room.



Having with the room mode of 26Hz is not so bad at all since the occurrence of this frequency is not high. Even it is occasionally appearing in the movie, the extra dB will act as a body massage which is quite good as well.

But just for perfection, I will try whatever way that I can able to do for possible enhancement only.



This is the main reason why I get 4 units of RealTraps BareTraps to be placed on the first reflection point at the 2 side walls as well as at the ceiling for possible improvement on sound focus.



Hopefully, in the near future, I will see you again in Singapore visiting you and the AV friends that I met during my last visit. Please send all my regards to them. If you are planning to come to HK, please give me some advance advice so that I can spare the time and stay in HK rather than travelling aboard for business.

Good luck, good health and all the best to you and your family.

Thanks for your compliment,bro

Actually I tune my subs according to what I think it is right and I want only and try not depending on the graph so much . I once try to make the response graph nicely but the more I tried, the more I don't like the bass feel . This happens to my friends using standalone Auddysee EQ and BFD that time too. But like you said , I now bringing up my son and enjoy another era of joyfulness

Multiple subs is not a easy task to accomplish but once done and you get what you wanted , you happy . Enjoy tweaking your subs but one advice , do not be greedy above 50hz . You will be overpower and mess up the lower frequency feel . I would recommend using max 2 subs for above 50hz unless you stack them together

When you have fix up the 4 ceiling corners , let us know your comments and findings.

Understand the open door issue . I have been struggling and gave up the idea too eventhough it do improve a lot on deep frequencies in my room

To be frank , I never EQ below 30hz since it is the feel that a lot of subs can't handle. To me , the more db the merrier so I just leave to what it combined and produced. I only concentrate on >36hz and ensure it gives me a smooth feel throughout ,including the deep.

Hope to see you in Singapore again as there are slight changes in my setup during your previous visit. Need your comments .

Will definately contact you and some bros in HK if I have the chance to go over.

Cheers bro . All the best to you and family too

I will try to use the 2 Units of RealTraps Tri-corners at the front ceiling corner and then rear ceiling corners to see the effects later.

[owatariryo]

First thanks for your informative experience shared, Raymond. Think I finally found a decent Chinese speaking place to learn & discuss practical room acoustic rather than jumping around w/ audiophiles that know nothing about it.

The performance "gap" between your DaaD & RealTraps may come from, IMHO:

1) Explanation: There's something debatable in your explanation to the graphs. You mentioned the room became "worse" after adding RealTraps. But have you checked the room by ear? You probably read that before that traps are, intentionally, to eliminate the peaks & nulls in freqs caused by boundary effects, including room modes, not to only "massacre". Have you noticed the drop @ 125Hz? 125Hz is a sound killer to most people, and your RealTraps tamed it down like a virgin.. And the hump @ low freq... That could be a phenomenon of revealing of a flatter freq response (which your room had eaten for a long time). So the more traps you add, the flatter the response would be.


2) The number of RealTraps in your room (Yes, coverage area is more critical than density. This has been widely discussed.) Merely a few panels may not make anything better. Especially in your case you have a really small room which emphasized the boundary effects.


3) Is that Daad tube hollow/semi-hollow? If so then they might introduce Helmholtz phenomenon that absorb specific low freq & its harmonics. But AFAIK to affect freq that low you probably need something MUCH bigger in diameter, so this 3rd opinion could be BS.


There's no magic in tube traps, multiple material or not, and the same rule applies to membrane traps, Helmholtz resonator...and so on.. You may wanna go Gearslutz.com(well I guess you've been there before) and take a look at what those serious home/project studios did to make their limited spaces sound great! Cheers!

[Raymond Wan]

First thanks for your informative experience shared, Raymond. Think I finally found a decent Chinese speaking place to learn & discuss practical room acoustic rather than jumping around w/ audiophiles that know nothing about it.

The performance "gap" between your DaaD & RealTraps may come from, IMHO:

1) Explanation: There's something debatable in your explanation to the graphs. You mentioned the room became "worse" after adding RealTraps. But have you checked the room by ear? You probably read that before that traps are, intentionally, to eliminate the peaks & nulls in freqs caused by boundary effects, including room modes, not to only "massacre". Have you noticed the drop @ 125Hz? 125Hz is a sound killer to most people, and your RealTraps tamed it down like a virgin.. And the hump @ low freq... That could be a phenomenon of revealing of a flatter freq response (which your room had eaten for a long time). So the more traps you add, the flatter the response would be.


2) The number of RealTraps in your room (Yes, coverage area is more critical than density. This has been widely discussed.) Merely a few panels may not make anything better. Especially in your case you have a really small room which emphasized the boundary effects.


3) Is that Daad tube hollow/semi-hollow? If so then they might introduce Helmholtz phenomenon that absorb specific low freq & its harmonics. But AFAIK to affect freq that low you probably need something MUCH bigger in diameter, so this 3rd opinion could be BS.


There's no magic in tube traps, multiple material or not, and the same rule applies to membrane traps, Helmholtz resonator...and so on.. You may wanna go Gearslutz.com(well I guess you've been there before) and take a look at what those serious home/project studios did to make their limited spaces sound great! Cheers!

Hi owatariryo

I only learn a little bit on room acoustic and experience by myself bit-by-bit under try and error way.

I did compare not just on the graphs but also using my ears to listen the sound effects.

I did find DAAD performance is better than RealTrap in my listening environment especially on low frequencies.

For sound absorption at the 1st reflection points, I found RealTrap panels are slightly better than DAAD.

This is the reason why I purchased 4 RealTrap Panels for placing at 1st reflection points at the side walls and ceiling.

I do agree with you, I need bigger DAAD.

Hence, I purchased as well recently 2 units of largest DAAD --> DAAD4



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