[AV] 再試 RealTraps 用作牆角 Bass Trap 低頻陷阱

[aw11onfire]

[Raymond Wan]

Raymond兄, Realtraps 的吸音data 有Mini, Mondotraps 等的靠牆 與 角落擺法的數據比較,
例如這張:


非牆角擺設恐怕在低頻(250Hz以下)的表現會打相當大的折扣.

或許可以增加一組 Realtraps in corner 的測量?

minime 兄

請注意此文主題 --> 再試 RealTraps 用作牆角 Bass Trap 低頻陷阱 (即主要試 RealTraps in Corner)

你是否忘記了？ 是否短暫失憶？

MondoTraps x 2 + BareTraps x 4 + MiniTraps x 2 [In Corner]


你的 RealTraps 吸音data，也很早已看過了，及測試計劃中亦作充份考慮

早前的測試中，我已考慮了及指出 Mondo 及 Mini 的吸音特性，

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=155928&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=66

你也曾在該 Post 作回應 (Post 80)
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=155928&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=80

我早前已測試過:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=155185&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=7

RealTraps Mondo in Corners
RealTraps Mondo on Wall
RealTraps Mini in Corners
RealTraps Mini on Wall
RealTraps Tri-corners in Corners

--> --> 試用 RealTraps 產品

(1) Corner - Mondo Trap x 1
(2) Corner - Mondo Trap x 1 + Mini Trap x 1
(3) Corner - Mondo Trap x 1 + Mini Trap x 2
(4) Adjacent Walls - Mondo Trap x 2
(5) Adjacent Walls - Mondo Trap x 2 + Mini Trap x 2
(6) Adjacent Walls - Mondo Trap x 2 + Tri-corners x 1 (at Top)
(7) Adjacent Walls - Mondo Trap x 2 + Tri-corners x 1 (at Bottom)
(8) Adjacent Walls - Mondo Trap x 2 + Tri-corners x 2 (at Top & Bottom)
(9) Adjacent Walls - Mondo Trap x 2 + Mini Trap x 2 + Tri-corners x 1 (at Bottom)

In Corner


On Wall


--> --> 測試組合及内容

10 項 RealTraps 及 DAAD 組合

(01) 無 RealTraps 及無 DAAD


(02) 2 塊 RealTraps Mondo


(03) 2 塊 RealTraps Mondo + 2 塊 RealTraps Mini


(04) 2 塊 RealTraps Mondo + 2 塊 RealTraps Mini + 2 塊 RealTraps Tri-corners


(09) 4 條 DAAD3 + 2 塊 RealTraps Mondo + 2 條 DAAD2 + 3 條 DAAD2


(10) 4 條 DAAD3 + 2 塊 RealTraps Mondo + 2 塊 RealTraps Mini + 2 塊 RealTraps Tri-corners + 2 條 DAAD2 + 3 條 DAAD2


--> 再試 RealTraps 用作牆角低頻陷阱

(2) 除 9 支原用的 DAAD 調音柱外，再加上 8 塊 RealTraps 放於左後牆角 --> 作低頻陷阱 [In Corner]


(3) 除 9 支原用的 DAAD 調音柱外，再加上 8 塊 RealTraps 放於前左右及後牆邊 --> 純作吸音 [On Wall]




有興趣請再翻閱舊文

我相信我已在自己能力範圍內，已作了合適及足夠不同組合的測試及比較

貼出來只是分享，各兄弟可用作參考

我亦發表了自己的觀察及結果，供大家思考

相信短期内不會再在 RealTraps 產品作其他比較了

[Rookie]

Thanks a lot for your report.

[tuktuk]

[luckybeanbean]

looks like it might work if put in rear corner

[Raymond Wan]

looks like it might work if put in rear corner

It has been suggested that the results of RT60 is insensitive to frequencies below 150Hz.

Those RT60 results of low frequency are affected by room mode as well as high energy and may not be reliable.

Therefore, RT60 is more meaningful for frequencies of mid-bass (>250Hz) or high frequencies

The reported results of RT60 at 125Hz are used as a very rough indication only.



This also being indicated in the manual of XTZ Room Analyzer.





Anyway, I consider the RealTraps are useful for improving the RT60 in my home.

However, they are not so effective on handling low frequency enhancement when comparing to DAAD.

[minime]

Raymond兄, Realtraps 的吸音data 有Mini, Mondotraps 等的靠牆 與 角落擺法的數據比較,
例如這張:


非牆角擺設恐怕在低頻(250Hz以下)的表現會打相當大的折扣.

或許可以增加一組 Realtraps in corner 的測量?

minime 兄

請注意此文主題 --> 再試 RealTraps 用作牆角 Bass Trap 低頻陷阱 (即主要試 RealTraps in Corner)

你是否忘記了？ 是否短暫失憶？

MondoTraps x 2 + BareTraps x 4 + MiniTraps x 2 [In Corner]

Raymond兄 可能是我短暫失憶, 但怎麼沒看到您獨立測試All Realtraps in corners (including baretraps)
您之前的討論串發表時應該還沒納入baretrap吧. 我的意思是想看到在此環境的同場比較測量,
(+mondotraps in front corners )最好是有overlap plots 可看.

另外您的stacked traps in corner 似乎與Realtraps 建議的設置原則有違背喔.
這類設計的bass trap 前後堆疊使用的效率較低喔.

還有在on wall(側方放置)的位置後方有窗簾, 可以請問後方是實牆嗎?

Thanks in advance.

[MartinTong]

會吾會家不成家

[henderson]

If Raymond decorates his living room, it will be a cinema, just like those expensive Japanese flats in HiVi.

[Raymond Wan]

Raymond兄 可能是我短暫失憶, 但怎麼沒看到您獨立測試All Realtraps in corners (including baretraps)
您之前的討論串發表時應該還沒納入baretrap吧. 我的意思是想看到在此環境的同場比較測量,
(+mondotraps in front corners )最好是有overlap plots 可看.

另外您的stacked traps in corner 似乎與Realtraps 建議的設置原則有違背喔.
這類設計的bass trap 前後堆疊使用的效率較低喔.

還有在on wall(側方放置)的位置後方有窗簾, 可以請問後方是實牆嗎?

Thanks in advance.

The BareTraps are brand new that I just purchased in late December 2009.

I just received the BareTraps and did a quick comparison tests together with MondoTraps and MiniTraps before passing them back to Eddie hing.

Please note for Effective Bass Trap, the capability is directly proportion to the size and thickness of it.

Hence, in order to handle the extremely low bass problem such as 26Hz in may case, I need to use a very thick bass trap. Therefore, I add the available Mondo & Bare Traps together to simulate a bass traps.

Please provide me the link that highlighting the in-effectiveness of the RealTraps when place one behind another.

Please note the RealTraps are not magic stuff, it is just making up by normal sound absorption materials such as Rock Wool, etc. Hence, the thicker the materials, the higher absorption capability to absorb the low frequency energy.



On the left side wall is solid concrete wall while on the right side wall is a bay windows that I have indicated in the drawings.

From numerous tests that I performed on RealTraps, the consistent results are obtained --> not effective to enhance the bass frequencies in my home environment.

However, I use it as a absorption panel for 1st reflection point so as to balance the sound reflection of the left side (concrete wall) and right side (bay window).



As I clearly mentioned in my last post, I am not able and will not perform any further test on RealTraps as I need to return them to Eddie and I have satisfied with the findings.

[Raymond Wan]

會吾會家不成家

因為我窮，自知能力有限，無錢買有獨立影音室的豪華大宅



故只能盡用有限空間，在豆潤大小約有實用面積 240 呎客廳內玩 HiFi 及 AV

可幸老細極為體諒，承諾讓出整個客廳，供我堆放一件二件大大小小的影音器材

更重要的是，從不投訴及不過問我買入任何器材，只要維持整潔便可



所以我亦心感滿足，與老細相敬如賓，樂也容容，亦不愁衣食

在麻雀雖小，但五臟全的小康之家中生活，自問也算是有一個美好家庭啊！



怎會家不成家呢？

[MartinTong]

會吾會家不成家

因為我窮，自知能力有限，無錢買有獨立影音室的豪華大宅



故只能盡用有限空間，在豆潤大小約有實用面積 240 呎客廳內玩 HiFi 及 AV

可幸老細極為體諒，承諾讓出整個客廳，供我堆放一件二件大大小小的影音器材

更重要的是，從不投訴及不過問我買入任何器材，只要維持整潔便可



所以我亦心感滿足，與老細相敬如賓，樂也容容，亦不愁衣食

在麻雀雖小，但五臟全的小康之家中生活，自問也算是有一個美好家庭啊！



怎會家不成家呢？

Raymond So

[Raymond Wan]

If Raymond decorates his living room, it will be a cinema, just like those expensive Japanese flats in HiVi.

In fact, I have thought about the decoration of the living room for several years. My boss also suggests me to do it and put aside around HK$300K to do the renovation work.

However, I am worrying about the decoration will change the acoustic conditions of the present status.

Therefore, unless I am sure how to do the decoration to achieve similar or better room acoustic, I do hesitate to give the move to change the present conditions.



Once I acquire more knowledge on the sound acoustic and room conditions, I will start to think and make the living room "look" better and hopefully also "sound" better.



If any brother can provide firm and valid designs for home theatre enhancement, I welcome the suggestion and will study seriously so as to enhance the aesthetic conditions of my AV home theatre within the living room.

[minime]

Raymond兄 可能是我短暫失憶, 但怎麼沒看到您獨立測試All Realtraps in corners (including baretraps)
您之前的討論串發表時應該還沒納入baretrap吧. 我的意思是想看到在此環境的同場比較測量,
(+mondotraps in front corners )最好是有overlap plots 可看.

另外您的stacked traps in corner 似乎與Realtraps 建議的設置原則有違背喔.
這類設計的bass trap 前後堆疊使用的效率較低喔.

還有在on wall(側方放置)的位置後方有窗簾, 可以請問後方是實牆嗎?

Thanks in advance.

The BareTraps are brand new that I just purchased in late December 2009.

I just received the BareTraps and did a quick comparison tests together with MondoTraps and MiniTraps before passing them back to Eddie hing.

Please note for Effective Bass Trap, the capability is directly proportion to the size and thickness of it.

Hence, in order to handle the extremely low bass problem such as 26Hz in may case, I need to use a very thick bass trap. Therefore, I add the available Mondo & Bare Traps together to simulate a bass traps.

Please provide me the link that highlighting the in-effectiveness of the RealTraps when place one behind another.

Please note the RealTraps are not magic stuff, it is just making up by normal sound absorption materials such as Rock Wool, etc. Hence, the thicker the materials, the higher absorption capability to absorb the low frequency energy.



On the left side wall is solid concrete wall while on the right side wall is a bay windows that I have indicated in the drawings.

From numerous tests that I performed on RealTraps, the consistent results are obtained --> not effective to enhance the bass frequencies in my home environment.

However, I use it as a absorption panel for 1st reflection point so as to balance the sound reflection of the left side (concrete wall) and right side (bay window).



As I clearly mentioned in my last post, I am not able and will not perform any further test on RealTraps as I need to return them to Eddie and I have satisfied with the findings.

http://www.realtraps.com/faq.htm

裡面節錄

MiniTraps and MondoTraps are made from double-density rigid fiberglass that is mechanically stable and won't sag, deform, crumble, or develop lumps over time as can lesser products made from foam or mineral fiber. We then bond a limp-mass membrane behind the fabric, which doubles the absorption at bass frequencies when compared to plain panels the same thickness. The fabric we use is custom made for us with a density and weight specific for acoustic panels, yet is thick enough to ensure that no fiberglass particles can escape into the air

是屬於panel trap(membrane trap), 是pressure type 非 velocity type bass trap.

[Raymond Wan]

Raymond兄 可能是我短暫失憶, 但怎麼沒看到您獨立測試All Realtraps in corners (including baretraps)
您之前的討論串發表時應該還沒納入baretrap吧. 我的意思是想看到在此環境的同場比較測量,
(+mondotraps in front corners )最好是有overlap plots 可看.

另外您的stacked traps in corner 似乎與Realtraps 建議的設置原則有違背喔.
這類設計的bass trap 前後堆疊使用的效率較低喔.

還有在on wall(側方放置)的位置後方有窗簾, 可以請問後方是實牆嗎?

Thanks in advance.

The BareTraps are brand new that I just purchased in late December 2009.

I just received the BareTraps and did a quick comparison tests together with MondoTraps and MiniTraps before passing them back to Eddie hing.

Please note for Effective Bass Trap, the capability is directly proportion to the size and thickness of it.

Hence, in order to handle the extremely low bass problem such as 26Hz in may case, I need to use a very thick bass trap. Therefore, I add the available Mondo & Bare Traps together to simulate a bass traps.

Please provide me the link that highlighting the in-effectiveness of the RealTraps when place one behind another.

Please note the RealTraps are not magic stuff, it is just making up by normal sound absorption materials such as Rock Wool, etc. Hence, the thicker the materials, the higher absorption capability to absorb the low frequency energy.



On the left side wall is solid concrete wall while on the right side wall is a bay windows that I have indicated in the drawings.

From numerous tests that I performed on RealTraps, the consistent results are obtained --> not effective to enhance the bass frequencies in my home environment.

However, I use it as a absorption panel for 1st reflection point so as to balance the sound reflection of the left side (concrete wall) and right side (bay window).



As I clearly mentioned in my last post, I am not able and will not perform any further test on RealTraps as I need to return them to Eddie and I have satisfied with the findings.

http://www.realtraps.com/faq.htm

裡面節錄

MiniTraps and MondoTraps are made from double-density rigid fiberglass that is mechanically stable and won't sag, deform, crumble, or develop lumps over time as can lesser products made from foam or mineral fiber. We then bond a limp-mass membrane behind the fabric, which doubles the absorption at bass frequencies when compared to plain panels the same thickness. The fabric we use is custom made for us with a density and weight specific for acoustic panels, yet is thick enough to ensure that no fiberglass particles can escape into the air

是屬於panel trap(membrane trap), 是pressure type 非 velocity type bass trap.

Again I have studied this information from RealTrap web site already.

The "double-density rigid fiberglass" that make up of the Mondo/Mini/Bare Traps are basically acoustic fibre of various density only. They are not MAGIC things that cannot place one another as you have pointed out. In fact, I have opened up one of the BareTraps and notice the fiberglass material inside.

Please be reminded that I am a Professional Chartered Materials Engineer and have full knowledge on common materials around us in particular the acoustic materials.

Please note Mondo Trap is of thickness 4.25 inches which is more powerful than Mini/Bare Trap of 3.25 inches from the low frequencies absorption point of view. Hence, RealTraps also produces difference thickness products to provide different absorption capability. Therefore, the thicker the trap, the more effective the trap is.

Again, I have tried 1 Mondo Trap, 2 Mondo Trap, 2 Mondo Trap + 2 Mini Traps, 2 Mondo Trap + 2 Mini Trap + 4 Bare Traps at the SAME corner. The results are similar.

If they can show slight improvement, I will have purchased and installed them at my home.

This is the reason I carry out various tests so as to find the possible enhancement. However, I cannot achieve the goal on low frequency absorption or enhancement. But I find the RealTraps can improve the RT60 slightly over DAAD2 so I purchase 4 nos. of Bare Traps for 1st reflection points.



Up to now, you have not pointed out the CLAIMED arrangement of several RealTraps products placing one behind another ?