[AV] DAC used by AV Amplifier / Processor

[orpheuslau]

ha? analog signal need to go thru adc ga...................why? in order for av amp to amplify?

one more...

as i remember when i am using the LX91 , i have compared the difference between analog output and HDMI output...

there is observable difference (any other gear remain unchanged)

may you refer to my previous post for reference
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=153834

[keroro]

ha? analog signal need to go thru adc ga...................why? in order for av amp to amplify?

應該可以bypass, 用av amp當純後級

[Raymond Wan]

ha? analog signal need to go thru adc ga...................why? in order for av amp to amplify?

This is a must process.

The Digital Signal Processing (DSP) need to handle in Digital format for sound effects, etc.

Hence, Analog Signal needs to convert to Digital Signal first (ADC).

After the DSP, the Digital Signal needs to convert back to Analog (DAC) for amplification.

Very straight forward and the flow chart shows clearly on this.



Hence, the quality of ADC & DAC (Signal Noise Ratio) is important in additional to resolution (e.g. 24Bit) & sampling frequency (e.g. 96kHz, 192kHz)

[Raymond Wan]

ha? analog signal need to go thru adc ga...................why? in order for av amp to amplify?

analog signal -> ADC - > digital signal for amp processing - > DAC - > Analog signal output...

so if you are using analog input, the signal has to go through this ADC-->DAC process...which "MAY" incur extra noise...therefore the quality of ADC is also important for pre-amp

in case of my denon AVP-A1HDA, analog signal can be converted to digital (ADC) for additional processing e.g. Audyssey , then convert back to analog (DAC) for XLR output. of course, for pure direct, the above process will be skipped in order to maintain the signal integrity.

All the AV Amp & AV Preamp have to follow the same route and not only AVP-A1HDA.

The Audyssey processing is part of DSP's job.

Hence, going back to the topic, the quality of DAC is important in all case.



For pure direct mode is just for HiFi (i.e. no DSP, etc).

For HiFi, if digital signal input, it still need to use the DAC (Digital to Analog) before output.

For HiFi, if analog signal input and pure direct mode, it is just a by-pass (i.e. straight in straight out).

[orpheuslau]

ha? analog signal need to go thru adc ga...................why? in order for av amp to amplify?

analog signal -> ADC - > digital signal for amp processing - > DAC - > Analog signal output...

so if you are using analog input, the signal has to go through this ADC-->DAC process...which "MAY" incur extra noise...therefore the quality of ADC is also important for pre-amp

in case of my denon AVP-A1HDA, analog signal can be converted to digital (ADC) for additional processing e.g. Audyssey , then convert back to analog (DAC) for XLR output. of course, for pure direct, the above process will be skipped in order to maintain the signal integrity.

All the AV Amp & AV Preamp have to follow the same route and not only AVP-A1HDA.

The Audyssey processing is part of DSP's job.

Hence, going back to the topic, the quality of DAC is important in all case.

yes that is the same route your lexicon pre-amp will follow, i just forget to address that, sorry

[Raymond Wan]

ha? analog signal need to go thru adc ga...................why? in order for av amp to amplify?

analog signal -> ADC - > digital signal for amp processing - > DAC - > Analog signal output...

so if you are using analog input, the signal has to go through this ADC-->DAC process...which "MAY" incur extra noise...therefore the quality of ADC is also important for pre-amp

in case of my denon AVP-A1HDA, analog signal can be converted to digital (ADC) for additional processing e.g. Audyssey , then convert back to analog (DAC) for XLR output. of course, for pure direct, the above process will be skipped in order to maintain the signal integrity.

All the AV Amp & AV Preamp have to follow the same route and not only AVP-A1HDA.

The Audyssey processing is part of DSP's job.

Hence, going back to the topic, the quality of DAC is important in all case.

yes that is the same route your lexicon pre-amp will follow, i just forget to address that, sorry

No. All the AV Amps and AVP are follow the same.

[orpheuslau]

ha? analog signal need to go thru adc ga...................why? in order for av amp to amplify?

analog signal -> ADC - > digital signal for amp processing - > DAC - > Analog signal output...

so if you are using analog input, the signal has to go through this ADC-->DAC process...which "MAY" incur extra noise...therefore the quality of ADC is also important for pre-amp

in case of my denon AVP-A1HDA, analog signal can be converted to digital (ADC) for additional processing e.g. Audyssey , then convert back to analog (DAC) for XLR output. of course, for pure direct, the above process will be skipped in order to maintain the signal integrity.

All the AV Amp & AV Preamp have to follow the same route and not only AVP-A1HDA.

The Audyssey processing is part of DSP's job.

Hence, going back to the topic, the quality of DAC is important in all case.

yes that is the same route your lexicon pre-amp will follow, i just forget to address that, sorry

No. All the AV Amps and AVP are follow the same.

i think i can understand the meaning of "ALL" which includes the pre-amp of yours and mine.

i am just trying to figure out the process of ADC->DAC, using my pre-amp as example but not necessarily means my pre-amp is superior than others.

Just want to make sure i have made myself clear.

[Raymond Wan]

ha? analog signal need to go thru adc ga...................why? in order for av amp to amplify?

analog signal -> ADC - > digital signal for amp processing - > DAC - > Analog signal output...

so if you are using analog input, the signal has to go through this ADC-->DAC process...which "MAY" incur extra noise...therefore the quality of ADC is also important for pre-amp

in case of my denon AVP-A1HDA, analog signal can be converted to digital (ADC) for additional processing e.g. Audyssey , then convert back to analog (DAC) for XLR output. of course, for pure direct, the above process will be skipped in order to maintain the signal integrity.

All the AV Amp & AV Preamp have to follow the same route and not only AVP-A1HDA.

The Audyssey processing is part of DSP's job.

Hence, going back to the topic, the quality of DAC is important in all case.

yes that is the same route your lexicon pre-amp will follow, i just forget to address that, sorry

No. All the AV Amps and AVP are follow the same.

i think i can understand the meaning of "ALL" which includes the pre-amp of yours and mine.

i am just trying to figure out the process of ADC->DAC, using my pre-amp as example but not necessarily means my pre-amp is superior than others.

Just want to make sure i have made myself clear.

Analog Digital Converter (ADC) is being grouped into Digital Signal Processing (DSP)

The goal of DSP is usually to measure, filter and/or compress continuous real-world analog signals. The first step is usually to convert the signal from an analog to a digital form, by sampling it using an analog-to-digital converter (ADC), which turns the analog signal into a stream of numbers.

DSP is usually handled by DSP Engines (e.g. Analog Devices : SHARC).

Denon AVP-A1HD uses SHARC x 3 --> http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... l=ja&tl=en
Lexicon MC-12B EQ uses SHARC x 8 + Cirrus Logic x 1



The number of DSP Engines of Lexicon is much more than Denon.

However, Denon uses latest SHARC but Lexicon uses old versions.

Hence, the performance need to be compared in technical data & real situation and should not just from the number of SHARC.

[keroro]

ha? analog signal need to go thru adc ga...................why? in order for av amp to amplify?

analog signal -> ADC - > digital signal for amp processing - > DAC - > Analog signal output...

so if you are using analog input, the signal has to go through this ADC-->DAC process...which "MAY" incur extra noise...therefore the quality of ADC is also important for pre-amp

in case of my denon AVP-A1HDA, analog signal can be converted to digital (ADC) for additional processing e.g. Audyssey , then convert back to analog (DAC) for XLR output. of course, for pure direct, the above process will be skipped in order to maintain the signal integrity.

All the AV Amp & AV Preamp have to follow the same route and not only AVP-A1HDA.

The Audyssey processing is part of DSP's job.

Hence, going back to the topic, the quality of DAC is important in all case.

yes that is the same route your lexicon pre-amp will follow, i just forget to address that, sorry

No. All the AV Amps and AVP are follow the same.

i think i can understand the meaning of "ALL" which includes the pre-amp of yours and mine.

i am just trying to figure out the process of ADC->DAC, using my pre-amp as example but not necessarily means my pre-amp is superior than others.

Just want to make sure i have made myself clear.

Analog Digital Converter (ADC) is being grouped into Digital Signal Processing (DSP)

The goal of DSP is usually to measure, filter and/or compress continuous real-world analog signals. The first step is usually to convert the signal from an analog to a digital form, by sampling it using an analog-to-digital converter (ADC), which turns the analog signal into a stream of numbers.

DSP is usually handled by DSP Engines (e.g. Analog Devices : SHARC).

Denon AVP-A1HD uses SHARC x 3 --> http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... l=ja&tl=en
Lexicon MC-12B EQ uses SHARC x 8 + Cirrus Logic x 1



The number of DSP Engines of Lexicon is much more than Denon.

However, Denon uses latest SHARC but Lexicon uses old versions.

Hence, the performance need to be compared in technical data & real situation and should not just from the number of SHARC.

咁我有問題想請教一下：

如果BDP analog去av amp，av amp可唔可以唔經DAC直出 signal去後級部份？如果唔可以咁樣，一定要經av amp既DAC的話，咁就算bdp有靚dac，但av amp粒係cheap野，咁都影響好大~

[Raymond Wan]

ha? analog signal need to go thru adc ga...................why? in order for av amp to amplify?

analog signal -> ADC - > digital signal for amp processing - > DAC - > Analog signal output...

so if you are using analog input, the signal has to go through this ADC-->DAC process...which "MAY" incur extra noise...therefore the quality of ADC is also important for pre-amp

in case of my denon AVP-A1HDA, analog signal can be converted to digital (ADC) for additional processing e.g. Audyssey , then convert back to analog (DAC) for XLR output. of course, for pure direct, the above process will be skipped in order to maintain the signal integrity.

All the AV Amp & AV Preamp have to follow the same route and not only AVP-A1HDA.

The Audyssey processing is part of DSP's job.

Hence, going back to the topic, the quality of DAC is important in all case.

yes that is the same route your lexicon pre-amp will follow, i just forget to address that, sorry

No. All the AV Amps and AVP are follow the same.

i think i can understand the meaning of "ALL" which includes the pre-amp of yours and mine.

i am just trying to figure out the process of ADC->DAC, using my pre-amp as example but not necessarily means my pre-amp is superior than others.

Just want to make sure i have made myself clear.

Analog Digital Converter (ADC) is being grouped into Digital Signal Processing (DSP)

The goal of DSP is usually to measure, filter and/or compress continuous real-world analog signals. The first step is usually to convert the signal from an analog to a digital form, by sampling it using an analog-to-digital converter (ADC), which turns the analog signal into a stream of numbers.

DSP is usually handled by DSP Engines (e.g. Analog Devices : SHARC).

Denon AVP-A1HD uses SHARC x 3 --> http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... l=ja&tl=en
Lexicon MC-12B EQ uses SHARC x 8 + Cirrus Logic x 1



The number of DSP Engines of Lexicon is much more than Denon.

However, Denon uses latest SHARC but Lexicon uses old versions.

Hence, the performance need to be compared in technical data & real situation and should not just from the number of SHARC.

咁我有問題想請教一下：

如果BDP analog去av amp，av amp可唔可以唔經DAC直出 signal去後級部份？如果唔可以咁樣，一定要經av amp既DAC的話，咁就算bdp有靚dac，但av amp粒係cheap野，咁都影響好大~

Yes, you can, if your AV amp has the "By-Pass" function. But you may lose the DSP process of your AV Amp such as bass management, etc.

You are correct to choose which decoder is better --> either Blu-ray Player or AV Amp.

Hence, you need to check the quality of DAC of the Blu-ray Player and AV Amp as well.

[keroro]

ha? analog signal need to go thru adc ga...................why? in order for av amp to amplify?

analog signal -> ADC - > digital signal for amp processing - > DAC - > Analog signal output...

so if you are using analog input, the signal has to go through this ADC-->DAC process...which "MAY" incur extra noise...therefore the quality of ADC is also important for pre-amp

in case of my denon AVP-A1HDA, analog signal can be converted to digital (ADC) for additional processing e.g. Audyssey , then convert back to analog (DAC) for XLR output. of course, for pure direct, the above process will be skipped in order to maintain the signal integrity.

All the AV Amp & AV Preamp have to follow the same route and not only AVP-A1HDA.

The Audyssey processing is part of DSP's job.

Hence, going back to the topic, the quality of DAC is important in all case.

yes that is the same route your lexicon pre-amp will follow, i just forget to address that, sorry

No. All the AV Amps and AVP are follow the same.

i think i can understand the meaning of "ALL" which includes the pre-amp of yours and mine.

i am just trying to figure out the process of ADC->DAC, using my pre-amp as example but not necessarily means my pre-amp is superior than others.

Just want to make sure i have made myself clear.

Analog Digital Converter (ADC) is being grouped into Digital Signal Processing (DSP)

The goal of DSP is usually to measure, filter and/or compress continuous real-world analog signals. The first step is usually to convert the signal from an analog to a digital form, by sampling it using an analog-to-digital converter (ADC), which turns the analog signal into a stream of numbers.

DSP is usually handled by DSP Engines (e.g. Analog Devices : SHARC).

Denon AVP-A1HD uses SHARC x 3 --> http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... l=ja&tl=en
Lexicon MC-12B EQ uses SHARC x 8 + Cirrus Logic x 1



The number of DSP Engines of Lexicon is much more than Denon.

However, Denon uses latest SHARC but Lexicon uses old versions.

Hence, the performance need to be compared in technical data & real situation and should not just from the number of SHARC.

咁我有問題想請教一下：

如果BDP analog去av amp，av amp可唔可以唔經DAC直出 signal去後級部份？如果唔可以咁樣，一定要經av amp既DAC的話，咁就算bdp有靚dac，但av amp粒係cheap野，咁都影響好大~

Yes, you can, if your AV amp has the "By-Pass" function. But you may lose the DSP process of your AV Amp such as bass management, etc.

You are correct to choose which decoder is better --> either Blu-ray Player or AV Amp.

Hence, you need to check the quality of DAC of the Blu-ray Player and AV Amp as well.

如果我需要av amp入面既DSP eg:EQ setting，咁用bdp解的話又要再比av amp解，咁不如直接bitstream好過？因為轉換2次同轉換1次質素應該有分別~

[Raymond Wan]

ha? analog signal need to go thru adc ga...................why? in order for av amp to amplify?

analog signal -> ADC - > digital signal for amp processing - > DAC - > Analog signal output...

so if you are using analog input, the signal has to go through this ADC-->DAC process...which "MAY" incur extra noise...therefore the quality of ADC is also important for pre-amp

in case of my denon AVP-A1HDA, analog signal can be converted to digital (ADC) for additional processing e.g. Audyssey , then convert back to analog (DAC) for XLR output. of course, for pure direct, the above process will be skipped in order to maintain the signal integrity.

All the AV Amp & AV Preamp have to follow the same route and not only AVP-A1HDA.

The Audyssey processing is part of DSP's job.

Hence, going back to the topic, the quality of DAC is important in all case.

yes that is the same route your lexicon pre-amp will follow, i just forget to address that, sorry

No. All the AV Amps and AVP are follow the same.

i think i can understand the meaning of "ALL" which includes the pre-amp of yours and mine.

i am just trying to figure out the process of ADC->DAC, using my pre-amp as example but not necessarily means my pre-amp is superior than others.

Just want to make sure i have made myself clear.

Analog Digital Converter (ADC) is being grouped into Digital Signal Processing (DSP)

The goal of DSP is usually to measure, filter and/or compress continuous real-world analog signals. The first step is usually to convert the signal from an analog to a digital form, by sampling it using an analog-to-digital converter (ADC), which turns the analog signal into a stream of numbers.

DSP is usually handled by DSP Engines (e.g. Analog Devices : SHARC).

Denon AVP-A1HD uses SHARC x 3 --> http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... l=ja&tl=en
Lexicon MC-12B EQ uses SHARC x 8 + Cirrus Logic x 1



The number of DSP Engines of Lexicon is much more than Denon.

However, Denon uses latest SHARC but Lexicon uses old versions.

Hence, the performance need to be compared in technical data & real situation and should not just from the number of SHARC.

咁我有問題想請教一下：

如果BDP analog去av amp，av amp可唔可以唔經DAC直出 signal去後級部份？如果唔可以咁樣，一定要經av amp既DAC的話，咁就算bdp有靚dac，但av amp粒係cheap野，咁都影響好大~

Yes, you can, if your AV amp has the "By-Pass" function. But you may lose the DSP process of your AV Amp such as bass management, etc.

You are correct to choose which decoder is better --> either Blu-ray Player or AV Amp.

Hence, you need to check the quality of DAC of the Blu-ray Player and AV Amp as well.

如果我需要av amp入面既DSP eg:EQ setting，咁用bdp解的話又要再比av amp解，咁不如直接bitstream好過？因為轉換2次同轉換1次質素應該有分別~

選擇用 Blu-ray 以 Bitstream 或 LPCM 輸出 ?

選擇用 Blu-ray 或 AV Amp 去處理 HD Decode ?

Blu-ray 用 HDMI (Digital) 或 RCA (Analog) 輸出 ?



選擇完全視乎每件器材及線材的性能，那部份最強

真是要比較過才可定案，那組合較佳

亦有可能，轉換2次比轉換1次的質素更好！



例如,我的器材組合 (Blu-ray --> AVP)
用 Wireworld Silver Starlight 5.2 HDMI 及 Equinox 5.2 RCA

(1) Pioneer BDP-09FD --> HDMI (Digital) --> Integra DTC-9.8

(2) Pioneer BDP-09FD --> RCA (Analog) --> Integra DTC-9.8

(3) Pioneer BDP-09FD --> RCA (Analog) ---> Lexicon MC-12

組合 (3) 較組合 (2) 為好，組合 (2) 又優於組合 (1)

[keroro]

ha? analog signal need to go thru adc ga...................why? in order for av amp to amplify?

analog signal -> ADC - > digital signal for amp processing - > DAC - > Analog signal output...

so if you are using analog input, the signal has to go through this ADC-->DAC process...which "MAY" incur extra noise...therefore the quality of ADC is also important for pre-amp

in case of my denon AVP-A1HDA, analog signal can be converted to digital (ADC) for additional processing e.g. Audyssey , then convert back to analog (DAC) for XLR output. of course, for pure direct, the above process will be skipped in order to maintain the signal integrity.

All the AV Amp & AV Preamp have to follow the same route and not only AVP-A1HDA.

The Audyssey processing is part of DSP's job.

Hence, going back to the topic, the quality of DAC is important in all case.

yes that is the same route your lexicon pre-amp will follow, i just forget to address that, sorry

No. All the AV Amps and AVP are follow the same.

i think i can understand the meaning of "ALL" which includes the pre-amp of yours and mine.

i am just trying to figure out the process of ADC->DAC, using my pre-amp as example but not necessarily means my pre-amp is superior than others.

Just want to make sure i have made myself clear.

Analog Digital Converter (ADC) is being grouped into Digital Signal Processing (DSP)

The goal of DSP is usually to measure, filter and/or compress continuous real-world analog signals. The first step is usually to convert the signal from an analog to a digital form, by sampling it using an analog-to-digital converter (ADC), which turns the analog signal into a stream of numbers.

DSP is usually handled by DSP Engines (e.g. Analog Devices : SHARC).

Denon AVP-A1HD uses SHARC x 3 --> http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... l=ja&tl=en
Lexicon MC-12B EQ uses SHARC x 8 + Cirrus Logic x 1



The number of DSP Engines of Lexicon is much more than Denon.

However, Denon uses latest SHARC but Lexicon uses old versions.

Hence, the performance need to be compared in technical data & real situation and should not just from the number of SHARC.

咁我有問題想請教一下：

如果BDP analog去av amp，av amp可唔可以唔經DAC直出 signal去後級部份？如果唔可以咁樣，一定要經av amp既DAC的話，咁就算bdp有靚dac，但av amp粒係cheap野，咁都影響好大~

Yes, you can, if your AV amp has the "By-Pass" function. But you may lose the DSP process of your AV Amp such as bass management, etc.

You are correct to choose which decoder is better --> either Blu-ray Player or AV Amp.

Hence, you need to check the quality of DAC of the Blu-ray Player and AV Amp as well.

如果我需要av amp入面既DSP eg:EQ setting，咁用bdp解的話又要再比av amp解，咁不如直接bitstream好過？因為轉換2次同轉換1次質素應該有分別~

選擇用 Blu-ray 以 Bitstream 或 LPCM 輸出 ?

選擇用 Blu-ray 或 AV Amp 去處理 HD Decode ?

Blu-ray 用 HDMI (Digital) 或 RCA (Analog) 輸出 ?



選擇完全視乎每件器材及線材的性能，那部份最強

真是要比較過才可定案，那組合較佳

亦有可能，轉換2次比轉換1次的質素更好！



例如,我的器材組合 (Blu-ray --> AVP)
用 Wireworld Silver Starlight 5.2 HDMI 及 Equinox 5.2 RCA

(1) Pioneer BDP-09FD --> HDMI (Digital) --> Integra DTC-9.8

(2) Pioneer BDP-09FD --> RCA (Analog) --> Integra DTC-9.8

(3) Pioneer BDP-09FD --> RCA (Analog) ---> Lexicon MC-12

組合 (3) 較組合 (2) 為好，組合 (2) 又優於組合 (1)

[Raymond Wan]

早前也曾提及，如果只打算用 HDMI 接駁 Blu-ray Player 及 AVP / AV Amp

你的高價 Blu-ray Player 內的優質音頻解碼 DAC 部份，全都用不到，可算浪費

如 Denon DVD-A1UD、Denon 3800BD、Pioneer BDP-09FD/LX-91、OPPO BDP-83SE

只用了讀取基本 HD 音頻 及 HD Video 解碼，像是一架優質 Blu-ray Transport

Blu-ray Player 以 HDMI 輸出 - 不經及不用 Blu-ray 机的DAC




如果只打算用 HDMI 接駁，例如可考慮用 OPPO BDP-83 (US$499) 或已可以

一定不必用較高質的 OPPO BDP-83SE (US$899)

亦更不用考慮 OPPO BDP-83SE NuForce Edition (US$1,295)

因最頂級的 OPPO BDP-83SE NuForce Edition 也主要是改良及增強 Analog 音頻 DAC 部份



Blu-ray Player 以 Analog 輸出 - 運用 Blu-ray 机的內部 DAC




故現在擁有或考慮買入高價優質 Blu-ray Player 的朋友可注意

有机會可嘗試比較由 Blu-ray 机以 Analog 輸出音頻，再與 HDMI 輸出作比較

[aw11onfire]

早前也曾提及，如果只打算用 HDMI 接駁 Blu-ray Player 及 AVP / AV Amp

你的高價 Blu-ray Player 內的優質音頻解碼 DAC 部份，全都用不到，可算浪費

如 Denon DVD-A1UD、Denon 3800BD、Pioneer BDP-09FD/LX-91、OPPO BDP-83SE

只用了讀取基本 HD 音頻 及 HD Video 解碼，像是一架優質 Blu-ray Transport

Blu-ray Player 以 HDMI 輸出 - 不經及不用 Blu-ray 机的DAC




如果只打算用 HDMI 接駁，例如可考慮用 OPPO BDP-83 (US$499) 或已可以

一定不必用較高質的 OPPO BDP-83SE (US$899)

亦更不用考慮 OPPO BDP-83SE NuForce Edition (US$1,295)

因最頂級的 OPPO BDP-83SE NuForce Edition 也主要是改良及增強 Analog 音頻 DAC 部份



Blu-ray Player 以 Analog 輸出 - 運用 Blu-ray 机的內部 DAC




故現在擁有或考慮買入高價優質 Blu-ray Player 的朋友可注意

有机會可嘗試比較由 Blu-ray 机以 Analog 輸出音頻，再與 HDMI 輸出作比較

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