[HiFi] Ripped SACD - DSD - PCM Audio Files

[Raymond Wan]

上周處理 Stephen Wan 的無理指控，浪費了整個周末

最初是希望細心比較 Ripped SACD 的不同方法及組合

Sampling Rates (output): 88.2k, 96k, 176.4k, 192k, DXD, DSD
Wordlengths (output): 16/24 bit fixed point
File Formats (output): WAV, FLAC
Wordlength Reduction Methods: Flat TPDF dither, POW-r 1, POW-r 2, POW-r 3



88.2kHz 96kHz 176.4KHz 192kHz

DSD spec. : 1-bit, 2.8224 MHz

PCM, 24-bit, 88.2kHz = 2.1168MHz
PCM, 24-bit, 96kHz = 2.304MHz
PCM, 24-bit, 176.4kHz = 4.2336MHz

[Raymond Wan]

昨天補數，整天聽 HiFi 及細心比較

作了很多不同組合的詳細反覆的試聽比較



最後再選 3 個曲目極詳細反反覆覆的比較

(1) 大棚交響樂
(2) 女聲
(3) 男聲



Ripped SACD - 24bit / 176.4kHz (8467 kbps)

Ripped CD - 16bit/ 44.1kHz (1411 kbps)



其後慢慢享多隻 SACD Ripped Audio Files (24bit/176.4kHz)

[mo mo cow]

[bowtie]

[Raymond Wan]

我的聽後及比較，在我家的系統下個人感受結果:

(Klimax DS/1 --> Mark Levinson No.32 --> Krell FPB 250Mc --> Avalon Ascendant II)



(1) 24bit / 88.2kHz 較 16bit / 88.2kHz 為好

(2) 在 24bit / 96kHz 下 WAV，不同 Wordlength Reduction Methods (TPDF dither, POW-r 1, POW-r 2, POW-r 3)，聽不到分別

(3) 24bit / 96kHz 、24bit / 176.4kHz、 24bit / 192kHz 的分別不大，24bit / 192kHz 稍好一點點

(4) WAV 及 FLAC 沒有分別



建議可考慮用 24bit / 192kHz FLAC 為 Output Audio Format 便是理想



美中不足

博士可否 Check Check

(1) Output Sound Level 較低，比較一般 Audio File (16/44.1 CD Ripped)，低了約 8dB ~ 10dB，故在比較 24/176.4 vs 16/44.1 要在 Preamp 提升 Output Volume.

(2) 每首歌前都有一聲 "啲" 的 Noise，可否找出原因

[skyjack]

[orpheuslau]

great post raymond!!

wht is ur comment between the original SACD and ripped copy??

[akiraku]

我的聽後及比較，在我家的系統下個人感受結果:

(Klimax DS/1 --> Mark Levinson No.32 --> Krell FPB 250Mc --> Avalon Ascendant II)



(1) 24bit / 88.2kHz 較 16bit / 88.2kHz 為好

(2) 在 24bit / 96kHz 下 WAV，不同 Wordlength Reduction Methods (TPDF dither, POW-r 1, POW-r 2, POW-r 3)，聽不到分別

(3) 24bit / 96kHz 、24bit / 176.4kHz、 24bit / 192kHz 的分別不大，24bit / 192kHz 稍好一點點

(4) WAV 及 FLAC 沒有分別



建議可考慮用 24bit / 192kHz FLAC 為 Output Audio Format 便是理想



美中不足

博士可否 Check Check

(1) Output Sound Level 較低，比較一般 Audio File (16/44.1 CD Ripped)，低了約 8dB ~ 10dB，故在比較 24/176.4 vs 16/44.1 要在 Preamp 提升 Output Volume.

(2) 每首歌前都有一聲 "啲" 的 Noise，可否找出原因

1) use 24bit / 176.4kHz OK? i found some doc. about sampling freq. they recommend to use a multiple of 44.1k, i.e. 88.2 or 176.4

2) 聲 "啲" 的 Noise ==> will do a post-processing of the flac. See my PM

3) Sound Level 較低 ==> coz i use "wavegain" to check the peak level and get the recommended album gain level (24/88.2) . However, "wavegain" supports a max. of 96kHz only, I use converted 24/88.2 as input. After i got the recommended dB, I convert it to 176.4k, i think the dB gain may be different for different sampling freq.
i use +6dB (default Saracon setting) for "葉德嫻" and "Linn Vol. 5". please check

[r32]

[Raymond Wan]

我的聽後及比較，在我家的系統下個人感受結果:

(Klimax DS/1 --> Mark Levinson No.32 --> Krell FPB 250Mc --> Avalon Ascendant II)



(1) 24bit / 88.2kHz 較 16bit / 88.2kHz 為好

(2) 在 24bit / 96kHz 下 WAV，不同 Wordlength Reduction Methods (TPDF dither, POW-r 1, POW-r 2, POW-r 3)，聽不到分別

(3) 24bit / 96kHz 、24bit / 176.4kHz、 24bit / 192kHz 的分別不大，24bit / 192kHz 稍好一點點

(4) WAV 及 FLAC 沒有分別



建議可考慮用 24bit / 192kHz FLAC 為 Output Audio Format 便是理想



美中不足

博士可否 Check Check

(1) Output Sound Level 較低，比較一般 Audio File (16/44.1 CD Ripped)，低了約 8dB ~ 10dB，故在比較 24/176.4 vs 16/44.1 要在 Preamp 提升 Output Volume.

(2) 每首歌前都有一聲 "啲" 的 Noise，可否找出原因

1) use 24bit / 176.4kHz OK? i found some doc. about sampling freq. they recommend to use a multiple of 44.1k, i.e. 88.2 or 176.4

2) 聲 "啲" 的 Noise ==> will do a post-processing of the flac. See my PM

3) Sound Level 較低 ==> coz i use "wavegain" to check the peak level and get the recommended album gain level (24/88.2) . However, "wavegain" supports a max. of 96kHz only, I use converted 24/88.2 as input. After i got the recommended dB, I convert it to 176.4k, i think the dB gain may be different for different sampling freq.
i use +6dB (default Saracon setting) for "葉德嫻" and "Linn Vol. 5". please check

The sound quality of 176.4kHz and 192kHz are close. Hence, if it is a recommendation for other experts, please stick onto using the 176.4kHz as the original DSD is supposed to be 24bit/88.2kHz native. Therefore, to save the final audio files to 176.4kHz is reasonable and appropriate.



Noted the reasons and remedial actions on the "dig" noise.



As mentioned in the post, for comparison purposes, I conducted extensively the comparison of ripped SACD and ripped CD for AV Show Disc of 2005, 2009 and 2011. All of them show the same sound level discrepancies.

For playing a single album, there is no problem to fix an input volume. However, if we play the songs from ripped CD and ripped SACD subsequently, then it is a big problem that we need to change the volume every time.

I will check both "葉德嫻" and "Linn Vol. 5" with the ripped CD versions this afternoon and report later.

[Raymond Wan]

great post raymond!!

wht is ur comment between the original SACD and ripped copy??

I only compare the ripped SACD against ripped CD.

In fact, I do not have any CD or SACD Transport or Player now.

I only use Linn Klimax DS/1 as my only audio source.

My previous and beloved Mark Levinson No.31.5 CDT and No.30.6 DAC had been sold to other ML lover already.



The main purpose of ripping the SACD (DSD HR Layer) is the potential improvement of sound over the normal ripped CD layer.

I have confirmed that the Ripped CD Audio is already performance equivalent to Reference CD Player on redbook CD.

If the performance of Ripped SACD Audio Files (HR Audio) are better than Ripped CD, I am extremely happy to stick onto the Ripped SACD to enjoy an enhanced level of performance and sound quality.

[Raymond Wan]

我的聽後及比較，在我家的系統下個人感受結果:

(Klimax DS/1 --> Mark Levinson No.32 --> Krell FPB 250Mc --> Avalon Ascendant II)



(1) 24bit / 88.2kHz 較 16bit / 88.2kHz 為好

(2) 在 24bit / 96kHz 下 WAV，不同 Wordlength Reduction Methods (TPDF dither, POW-r 1, POW-r 2, POW-r 3)，聽不到分別

(3) 24bit / 96kHz 、24bit / 176.4kHz、 24bit / 192kHz 的分別不大，24bit / 192kHz 稍好一點點

(4) WAV 及 FLAC 沒有分別



建議可考慮用 24bit / 192kHz FLAC 為 Output Audio Format 便是理想



美中不足

博士可否 Check Check

(1) Output Sound Level 較低，比較一般 Audio File (16/44.1 CD Ripped)，低了約 8dB ~ 10dB，故在比較 24/176.4 vs 16/44.1 要在 Preamp 提升 Output Volume.

(2) 每首歌前都有一聲 "啲" 的 Noise，可否找出原因

1) use 24bit / 176.4kHz OK? i found some doc. about sampling freq. they recommend to use a multiple of 44.1k, i.e. 88.2 or 176.4

2) 聲 "啲" 的 Noise ==> will do a post-processing of the flac. See my PM

3) Sound Level 較低 ==> coz i use "wavegain" to check the peak level and get the recommended album gain level (24/88.2) . However, "wavegain" supports a max. of 96kHz only, I use converted 24/88.2 as input. After i got the recommended dB, I convert it to 176.4k, i think the dB gain may be different for different sampling freq.
i use +6dB (default Saracon setting) for "葉德嫻" and "Linn Vol. 5". please check

The sound quality of 176.4kHz and 192kHz are close. Hence, if it is a recommendation for other experts, please stick onto using the 176.4kHz as the original DSD is supposed to be 24bit/88.2kHz native. Therefore, to save the final audio files to 176.4kHz is reasonable and appropriate.



Noted the reasons and remedial actions on the "dig" noise.



As mentioned in the post, for comparison purposes, I conducted extensively the comparison of ripped SACD and ripped CD for AV Show Disc of 2005, 2009 and 2011. All of them show the same sound level discrepancies.

For playing a single album, there is no problem to fix an input volume. However, if we play the songs from ripped CD and ripped SACD subsequently, then it is a big problem that we need to change the volume every time.

I will check both "葉德嫻" and "Linn Vol. 5" with the ripped CD versions this afternoon and report later.

Done.

Level output of "葉德嫻" and "Linn Vol. 5" and "Closer to the Music" are now normal and O.K.

[hintel79]

THX

[andywo]

Sorry to interrupt, what is the difference betweet these DSD files ripped from SACD and the DSD CD? Moreover, can saracon converted the DSD CD into HI RES PCM Audio Files?

[akiraku]

Sorry to interrupt, what is the difference betweet these DSD files ripped from SACD and the DSD CD? Moreover, can saracon converted the DSD CD into HI RES PCM Audio Files?

DSD is the native stored format on SACD.

DSD CD = to use DSD technology for recording/processing the CD master, but will convert to 16 bit / 44.1kHz on CD

Yes, we use Saracon to convert DSD to PCM. Saracon can also do up-sampling, i.e. 16/44.1 -> 24/96 or better. check: http://hifitrack.com/zh-hant/taxonomy/term/57